browser comparison section + worth mentioning: waterfox, icecat & pale moon #379

2017-12-22T02:45:22Z

angela-d commented

2017-12-22 02:45:22 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Description

Submitting 3 browsers "worth mentioning," as discussed in issues: https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/375

Plus a new section: Browser Comparison section with a chart comparing privacy-related features of each browser

As of right now, the choices are limited to Tor, Firefox and Brave.
Due to the recent trust issues surrounding actions by Mozilla, users who are seeking alternatives should know there's other options out there.

Note: I seen IceCat was previously on Privacy Tools but commented out, I didn't see any mention regarding why it was taken off nor could I locate a PR.

The 3 browsers suggested meet the Software Criteria:

Open Source
Cross-platform
Easy to use
Privacy respecting (arguably more-so than 2 of the 3 browsers currently listed as choices.)

HTML Preview

http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/z0m8i3/privacytools.io/blob/master/index.html

### Description Submitting 3 browsers "worth mentioning," as discussed in issues: https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/375 Plus a new section: Browser Comparison section with a chart comparing privacy-related features of each browser As of right now, the choices are limited to Tor, Firefox and Brave. Due to the recent trust issues surrounding actions by Mozilla, users who are seeking alternatives should know there's other options out there. Note: I seen IceCat was previously on Privacy Tools but commented out, I didn't see any mention regarding why it was taken off nor could I locate a PR. The 3 browsers suggested meet the Software Criteria: - Open Source - Cross-platform - Easy to use - Privacy respecting (arguably more-so than 2 of the 3 browsers currently listed as choices.) ### HTML Preview http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/z0m8i3/privacytools.io/blob/master/index.html

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beerisgood commented

2017-12-23 21:12:45 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Why not add Pale Moon?

Mikaela commented

2017-12-23 21:24:57 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

After asking the question about browser comparsion table, I tried to try them and reached the following conclusions:

Waterfox is the most recent and imports Firefox data without issues while also having official Android app, but it's not in F-Droid or Play Store (which has some app that is commented as fake with bad reviews), but according to their subreddit it's coming.
I didn't try Pale Moon as I have some issue with their IRC policy from years ago and now morw recently I wasn't able to read their changelogs which are behind forum registration and I understood it to be based on old Firefox and not have any support for WebExtensioms, but there is a new browser doing that which name I naturally forgot.
I disn't try IceCat as it wasn't in Chocolatey (while Waterfox was) and I wasn't able to find a official build or build from website that is faniliar to me or that I would trust.

I typed this on mobile before going to sleep, so I am not going to hunt for names or source links, please ask me better time in case you don't find them by yourself. Good night

After asking the question about browser comparsion table, I tried to try them and reached the following conclusions: * Waterfox is the most recent and imports Firefox data without issues while also having official Android app, but it's not in F-Droid or Play Store (which has some app that is commented as fake with bad reviews), but according to their subreddit it's coming. * I didn't try Pale Moon as I have some issue with their IRC policy from years ago and now morw recently I wasn't able to read their changelogs which are behind forum registration and I understood it to be based on old Firefox and not have any support for WebExtensioms, but there is a new browser doing that which name I naturally forgot. * I disn't try IceCat as it wasn't in Chocolatey (while Waterfox was) and I wasn't able to find a official build or build from website that is faniliar to me or that I would trust. *I typed this on mobile before going to sleep, so I am not going to hunt for names or source links, please ask me better time in case you don't find them by yourself. Good night*

Atavic commented

2017-12-23 21:34:17 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

but there is a new browser doing that which name I naturally forgot.

It's Basilisk

>but there is a new browser doing that which name I naturally forgot. It's Basilisk

angela-d commented

2017-12-23 21:54:02 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@beerisgood Pale Moon is mentioned on the 'Worth Mentioning' and browser comparison chart in this pull request.

I disn't try IceCat as it wasn't in Chocolatey (while Waterfox was) and I wasn't able to find a official build or build from website that is faniliar to me or that I would trust.

Chocolatey is Windows, right?
The Free Software Foundation has a link to a zip toward the bottom of the page: https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/IceCat
IceCat is also in F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.gnu.icecat/

@beerisgood Pale Moon is mentioned on the 'Worth Mentioning' and browser comparison chart in this pull request. > I disn't try IceCat as it wasn't in Chocolatey (while Waterfox was) and I wasn't able to find a official build or build from website that is faniliar to me or that I would trust. Chocolatey is Windows, right? The Free Software Foundation has a link to a zip toward the bottom of the page: https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/IceCat IceCat is also in F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.gnu.icecat/

Atavic commented

2017-12-23 21:58:08 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

I didn't try Pale Moon... I wasn't able to read their changelogs

http://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml

...and not have any support for WebExtensions

Nah, check its site, it has many addons.

>I didn't try Pale Moon... I wasn't able to read their changelogs http://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml >...and not have any support for WebExtensions Nah, check its site, it has many addons.

beerisgood commented

2017-12-23 23:45:14 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@Mikaela who in hell use chocolatey?

Mikaela commented

2017-12-24 08:55:45 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

but according to their subreddit it's coming.

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterfox/comments/7km3n2/switched_from_firefox_today_why_doesnt_waterfox/drfu79n/

It's Basilisk

Thanks :)

Chocolatey is Windows, right?

Yes.

The Free Software Foundation has a link to a zip toward the bottom of the page: https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/IceCat

Where? I read it twice without seeing it and CTRL + F was unhelpful. I wish it was directly linked from their homepage. https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/

http://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml

Thanks. I originally tried finding them from http://www.palemoon.org/ bottom (If you are interested in keeping updated...), but today both of the links are working for me, maybe their mobile website wants registration or I performed user error while being tired.

Nah, check its site, it has many addons.

From Firefox 57 onwards, WebExtensions will be the only supported extension framework in Firefox. This framework is not and will not be supported in Pale Moon, therefore anything using it will not be compatible. says https://addons.palemoon.org/incompatible/

@Mikaela who in hell use chocolatey?

I do. Windows is not my primary OS and Chocolatey makes using it and supporting family with it less painful as I don't have to check updates for all apps separately. In this case I used Chocolatey as I had no idea whether Waterfox or IceCat would include automatic updater until I installed Waterfox and learned that at least it does (and also supports Firefox sync).
Is there something wrong with Chocolatey that I should be aware of?

> but according to their subreddit it's coming. https://www.reddit.com/r/waterfox/comments/7km3n2/switched_from_firefox_today_why_doesnt_waterfox/drfu79n/ > It's Basilisk Thanks :) > Chocolatey is Windows, right? Yes. > The Free Software Foundation has a link to a zip toward the bottom of the page: https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/IceCat Where? I read it twice without seeing it and CTRL + F was unhelpful. I wish it was directly linked from their homepage. https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ > http://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml Thanks. I originally tried finding them from http://www.palemoon.org/ bottom (*If you are interested in keeping updated...*), but today both of the links are working for me, maybe their mobile website wants registration or I performed user error while being tired. > Nah, check its site, it has many addons. *From Firefox 57 onwards, WebExtensions will be the only supported extension framework in Firefox. This framework is not and will not be supported in Pale Moon, therefore anything using it will not be compatible.* says https://addons.palemoon.org/incompatible/ > @Mikaela who in hell use chocolatey? I do. Windows is not my primary OS and Chocolatey makes using it and supporting family with it less painful as I don't have to check updates for all apps separately. In this case I used Chocolatey as I had no idea whether Waterfox or IceCat would include automatic updater until I installed Waterfox and learned that at least it does (and also supports Firefox sync). Is there something wrong with Chocolatey that I should be aware of?

Mikaela (Migrated from github.com) reviewed 2017-12-24 09:03:04 +00:00

browser-comparison.html

Mikaela (Migrated from github.com) commented

2017-12-24 09:03:03 +00:00

Are you sure that Waterfox has pre-installed privacy extensions? Which ones?

I didn't see any new extensions installed when I imported data from Firefox and when I created a new Waterfox profile, it didn't have any extensions installed. I am not sure if this is because I created a new profile and would I have had different experience if I had started Waterfox as another user.

Are you sure that Waterfox has pre-installed privacy extensions? Which ones? I didn't see any new extensions installed when I imported data from Firefox and when I created a new Waterfox profile, it didn't have any extensions installed. I am not sure if this is because I created a new profile and would I have had different experience if I had started Waterfox as another user.

Hillside502 commented

2017-12-24 14:23:40 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Open Source Chocolatey Alternatives - AlternativeTo.net
https://alternativeto.net/software/chocolatey/?license=opensource

Open Source Chocolatey Alternatives - AlternativeTo.net https://alternativeto.net/software/chocolatey/?license=opensource

😕 2

angela-d (Migrated from github.com) reviewed 2017-12-24 23:11:12 +00:00

browser-comparison.html

angela-d (Migrated from github.com) commented

2017-12-24 23:11:12 +00:00

The Linux version has Decentraleyes installed for Waterfox 56. I did not upgrade; it was a fresh install.

I am not sure if importing would have any effect on pre-installed extensions?
Creating a new profile would likely obliterate any existing extensions, though.

Maybe someone else using Windows can confirm.

The Linux version has Decentraleyes installed for Waterfox 56. I did not upgrade; it was a fresh install. I am not sure if importing would have any effect on pre-installed extensions? Creating a new profile would likely obliterate any existing extensions, though. Maybe someone else using Windows can confirm.

angela-d commented

2017-12-24 23:13:20 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Where? I read it twice without seeing it and CTRL + F was unhelpful. I wish it was directly linked from their homepage. https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/

Under Resources and communication at the very bottom:
https://casualgamer.ca/icecat/icecat-52.3.0.en-US.win64.zip

> Where? I read it twice without seeing it and CTRL + F was unhelpful. I wish it was directly linked from their homepage. https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ Under *Resources and communication* at the very bottom: https://casualgamer.ca/icecat/icecat-52.3.0.en-US.win64.zip

👍 1

Mikaela (Migrated from github.com) reviewed 2017-12-25 07:14:56 +00:00

browser-comparison.html

Mikaela (Migrated from github.com) commented

2017-12-25 07:14:55 +00:00

I tried on another user account on Windows10 that had never opened Waterfox, chose to not import anything and it again said that no extensions had been installed.

angela-d (Migrated from github.com) reviewed 2017-12-25 21:07:31 +00:00

browser-comparison.html

angela-d (Migrated from github.com) commented

2017-12-25 21:07:31 +00:00

My guess is that perhaps the Windows version doesn't have it, which is odd.

I'll remove Waterfox from that section of the chart.

My guess is that perhaps the Windows version doesn't have it, which is odd. I'll remove Waterfox from that section of the chart.

ghost commented

2018-01-03 02:50:14 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Take a look at Palemoon dev's attitude towards privacy.

https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/focus-android/issues/1743
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=11659

No palemoon please.

Take a look at Palemoon dev's attitude towards privacy. https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/focus-android/issues/1743 https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=11659 No palemoon please.

👍 2 👎 1

ghost commented

2018-01-03 02:53:35 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Not supporting Tor = No privacy at all.

👍 1

ghost commented

2018-01-03 06:05:57 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Here's an interesting history which Palemoon developer and its user is arguing over Tor LOL
https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/Pale-Moon/issues/413

Here's an interesting history which Palemoon developer and its user is arguing over Tor LOL https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/Pale-Moon/issues/413

👍 1 👎 2

beerisgood commented

2018-01-03 13:13:17 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

It looks like you dont understand what Moonchild write.
Also you should learn how to edit posts

It looks like you dont understand what Moonchild write. Also you should learn how to edit posts

👍 1

angela-d commented

2018-01-06 18:47:27 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@ghost Pale Moon devs stance on Tor doesn't come off as anti-privacy to me. He has some legitimate arguments.

👍 1

ghost commented

2018-11-02 20:37:13 +00:00

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Any updates? We should resolve this PR.

angela-d commented

2018-11-05 00:55:19 +00:00

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@Shifterovich What kind of updates were needed?

ghost commented

2018-11-05 16:17:19 +00:00

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I'd like add this section to the website. So I'd like to see this discussion resolved.

Atavic commented

2018-11-05 23:03:25 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

My opinion is that IceCat has some fine extension, the only con is slow development (not a big issue IMHO).
Waterfox devs do a great job; although it does not aim at privacy, but at a wide compatibility instead.
Tor has an hardened setup and Firefox is now adopting most of Tor Project decisions towards better privacy.
Brave should be left alone.

My opinion is that IceCat has some fine extension, the only con is slow development (not a big issue IMHO). Waterfox devs do a great job; although it does not aim at privacy, but at a wide compatibility instead. Tor has an hardened setup and Firefox is now adopting most of Tor Project decisions towards better privacy. Brave should be left alone.

angela-d commented

2018-11-06 00:27:31 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

I don't have much else to add that hasn't already been said.
The conversation died down quite a while ago, I'd forgotten about this pr. :)

I don't have much else to add that hasn't already been said. The conversation died down quite a while ago, I'd forgotten about this pr. :)

steils commented

2018-11-11 05:43:37 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Looks like a nice comparison and reviews here: https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/browsers.html — CC0, BTW.

beerisgood commented

2018-11-11 08:04:25 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@steils Not realy. The ungoogled chromium still use Google spying and is on "top tier" while Firefox is near latest tier but you can Firefox configure to stop all crap. Not with Chromium or a fork

gjhklfdsa commented

2018-11-27 17:54:37 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

This PR is licensed under GPL and not WTPL.

@Shifterovich @angela-d

This PR is licensed under GPL and not WTPL. @Shifterovich @angela-d

angela-d commented

2018-11-28 01:11:41 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@gjhklfdsa
And?

That's what privacytools.io was licensed at, when the PR was made: https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/commits/master/LICENSE.txt

@gjhklfdsa And? That's what privacytools.io was licensed at, when the PR was made: https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/commits/master/LICENSE.txt

gjhklfdsa commented

2018-12-05 00:35:51 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@angela-d It means that it cannot be merged with the current version. :)
Or at least, not without changing the license.

Would you be so kind to re-license your work?

@angela-d It means that it cannot be merged with the current version. :) Or at least, not without changing the license. Would you be so kind to re-license your work?

angela-d commented

2018-12-09 02:06:30 +00:00

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The license wasn't submitted in the PR, it came with the fork clone. This has been up for over a year, so modifying anything at this point seems futile.

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