Replace Trisquel with Fedora #1156

jonah · 2019-08-13T18:28:18Z

jonah commented

2019-08-13 18:28:18 +00:00

Replaces Trisquel with Fedora as a top-3 choice, moves Trisquel to Worth Mentioning. This makes a lot more sense to me as a general recommendation IMO, when I was going through the changes for #1148 I didn't really understand why Trisquel was recommended in the first place.

I would also be open to recommending elementaryOS instead of Trisquel or Fedora despite the comments against it at #1130, if we'd prefer. But Fedora is also fine. I do think it's important to have an easier recommendation, Qubes (and arguably even Debian) is somewhat extreme.

Resolves: #1130; Resolves: #449

Replaces Trisquel with Fedora as a top-3 choice, moves Trisquel to Worth Mentioning. This makes a lot more sense to me as a general recommendation IMO, when I was going through the changes for #1148 I didn't really understand why Trisquel was recommended in the first place. I would also be open to recommending elementaryOS instead of Trisquel or Fedora despite the comments against it at #1130, if we'd prefer. But Fedora is also fine. I do think it's important to have an easier recommendation, Qubes (and arguably even Debian) is somewhat extreme. Resolves: #1130; Resolves: #449

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netlify[bot] commented

2019-08-13 18:29:13 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Deploy preview for privacytools-io ready!

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Mikaela (Migrated from github.com) approved these changes 2019-08-13 19:12:57 +00:00

WorryTheBirds12 (Migrated from github.com) requested changes 2019-08-14 00:28:28 +00:00

WorryTheBirds12 (Migrated from github.com) left a comment

I didn't really understand why Trisquel was recommended in the first place.

Trisquel is a popular OS recommended by privacy experts worldwide for its ease-of-use and free/libre components and support.

Qubes Qubes (and arguably even Debian) is somewhat extreme. (and arguably even Debian)

QubesOS is getting better. Debian was my main for a long time, install KDE and Synaptic and you are ready to go.

YUM/RPM Package Manager

Yum is basically only used in Fedora and Redhat. We used to have BlagBlag but since it has died.
I do not understand how this benefits users in any way not provided by APT or GUIX.

Fedora is for profit:
Fedora is a venture mainly by RedHat, Trisquel is a non-profit community led venture.
https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Project

easier recommendation,

Have you ran Trisquel or Fedora? From a UI standpoint, Fedora is made for engineers.
Trisquel uses a polished user experience built for every day users.

If you haven't tried Trisquel I highly recommend it!
https://trisquel.info/en/download

> I didn't really understand why Trisquel was recommended in the first place. Trisquel is a popular OS recommended by privacy experts worldwide for its ease-of-use and free/libre components and support. > Qubes Qubes (and arguably even Debian) is somewhat extreme. (and arguably even Debian) QubesOS is getting better. Debian was my main for a long time, install KDE and Synaptic and you are ready to go. _______________________ **[YUM/RPM Package Manager](https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yum_(software))** Yum is basically only used in Fedora and Redhat. We used to have BlagBlag but since it has died. I do not understand how this benefits users in any way not provided by APT or GUIX. ___________________ **Fedora is for profit**: Fedora is a venture mainly by RedHat, Trisquel is a non-profit community led venture. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Project _______________________ > easier recommendation, Have you ran Trisquel or Fedora? From a UI standpoint, Fedora is made for engineers. Trisquel uses a polished user experience built for every day users. - If you haven't tried Trisquel I highly recommend it! https://trisquel.info/en/download

nitrohorse commented

2019-08-14 01:13:54 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

I have a soft-spot for elementary since it was the first Linux distro that seemed to get the UI/UX just right for me. It was also much easier to recommend to friends/family over using Windows in regards to its usability. Their privacy policy is also decent:

Your data always belongs to you, and only you. We don’t make advertising deals or collect sensitive personal data. We’re funded directly by our users paying what they want for elementary OS and apps on AppCenter. And that’s how it should be. We do not collect any data from elementary OS. Your files, settings, and all other personal data remain on-device unless you explicitly share them with a third-party app or service.

I don't have experience with Fedora but it also sounds like a solid recommendation. I'm just wondering if elementary would bring a healthy balance to our OS recommendations that also keeps new users to Linux in mind?

I have a soft-spot for elementary since it was the first Linux distro that seemed to get the UI/UX just right for me. It was also much easier to recommend to friends/family over using Windows in regards to its usability. [Their privacy policy](https://elementary.io/privacy) is also decent: > Your data always belongs to you, and only you. We don’t make advertising deals or collect sensitive personal data. We’re funded directly by our users paying what they want for elementary OS and apps on AppCenter. And that’s how it should be. We do not collect any data from elementary OS. Your files, settings, and all other personal data remain on-device unless you explicitly share them with a third-party app or service. I don't have experience with Fedora but it also sounds like a solid recommendation. I'm just wondering if elementary would bring a healthy balance to our OS recommendations that also keeps new users to Linux in mind?

jonah commented

2019-08-14 04:41:42 +00:00

Trisquel is a popular OS recommended by privacy experts worldwide for its ease-of-use and free/libre components and support.

Both of which are not privacy-centric features.

Regarding the 100% free aspect, we currently recommend Debian which basically covers that use-case.

Yum is basically only used in Fedora and Redhat. I do not understand how this benefits users in any way not provided by APT or GUIX.

Supporting a monoculture in the package manager space seems like not the best idea. Fedora, CentOS, and RHEL are huge distros too, so saying its "only" used in those distros understates its popularity.

Fedora is for profit

As I stated at https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/1130#issuecomment-520963685, Fedora is a community led project:

Saying Fedora is owned by Red Hat would be like saying Debian is owned by Canonical

RHEL "owning" Fedora seems to be a common misinterpretation, but it's pretty obviously debunked.

From a UI standpoint

Fedora runs GNOME. That's basically the easiest-to-understand desktop environment around. The only better DE from a purely UI perspective (IMO) is Elementary's. Trisquel looks straight out of 2012.

I have a soft-spot for elementary since it was the first Linux distro that seemed to get the UI/UX just right for me.

Agree, which is why I'd also be fine listing it, it is fantastic software. But from especially a security perspective Fedora seems to come out on top. Also we currently recommend Debian (and Trisquel for the time being), both of which are apt-based, so I think throwing another package manager in the mix is a good thing. Elementary is basically Ubuntu with another DE and custom apps, but the underlying software is the same.

The main things I like about Fedora are 1) it isn't Debian-based like our other recommendations, and 2) it has a very security-focused approach. As @blacklight447-ptio stated at https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/1130#issuecomment-520738986:

also, fedora is out of the box a lot more secure then debian. it has Selinux out of the box, it applies a ton of hardening patches aswell, it also uses wayland, which is all listed above.

> Trisquel is a popular OS recommended by privacy experts worldwide for its ease-of-use and free/libre components and support. Both of which are not privacy-centric features. Regarding the 100% free aspect, we currently recommend Debian which basically covers that use-case. --- > Yum is basically only used in Fedora and Redhat. I do not understand how this benefits users in any way not provided by APT or GUIX. Supporting a monoculture in the package manager space seems like not the best idea. Fedora, CentOS, and RHEL are **huge** distros too, so saying its "only" used in those distros understates its popularity. --- > Fedora is for profit As I stated at https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/1130#issuecomment-520963685, Fedora is a community led project: > Saying Fedora is owned by Red Hat would be like saying Debian is owned by Canonical RHEL "owning" Fedora seems to be a common misinterpretation, but it's pretty obviously debunked. --- > From a UI standpoint Fedora runs GNOME. That's basically the easiest-to-understand desktop environment around. The only better DE from a purely UI perspective (IMO) is Elementary's. Trisquel looks straight out of 2012. --- > I have a soft-spot for elementary since it was the first Linux distro that seemed to get the UI/UX just right for me. Agree, which is why I'd also be fine listing it, it is fantastic software. But from especially a security perspective Fedora seems to come out on top. Also we currently recommend Debian (and Trisquel for the time being), both of which are apt-based, so I think throwing another package manager in the mix is a good thing. Elementary is basically Ubuntu with another DE and custom apps, but the underlying software is the same. --- The main things I like about Fedora are 1) it isn't Debian-based like our other recommendations, and 2) it has a very security-focused approach. As @blacklight447-ptio stated at https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/1130#issuecomment-520738986: > also, fedora is out of the box a lot more secure then debian. it has Selinux out of the box, it applies a ton of hardening patches aswell, it also uses wayland, which is all listed above.

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nitrohorse commented

2019-08-14 04:49:18 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

from especially a security perspective Fedora seems to come out on top. Also we currently recommend Debian (and Trisquel for the time being), both of which are apt-based, so I think throwing another package manager in the mix is a good thing.

Ah, that's a good point I didn't think about. Makes sense! 👍

> from especially a security perspective Fedora seems to come out on top. Also we currently recommend Debian (and Trisquel for the time being), both of which are apt-based, so I think throwing another package manager in the mix is a good thing. Ah, that's a good point I didn't think about. Makes sense! :+1:

nitrohorse (Migrated from github.com) approved these changes 2019-08-14 04:49:34 +00:00

nitrohorse (Migrated from github.com) left a comment

LGTM

ggg27 commented

2019-08-15 18:11:34 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Just to be clear:

The project was founded in 2003 as a result of a merger between the Red Hat Linux (RHL) and Fedora Linux projects. Red Hat employees make up only 35% of project contributors, and most of the over 2,000 contributors are unaffiliated members of the community.

https://archive.is/TwJkK

If you want a different package manager may I recommend GUIX of Pacman?

Just to be clear: > The project was founded in 2003 as a result of a merger between the Red Hat Linux (RHL) and Fedora Linux projects. Red Hat employees make up only 35% of project contributors, and most of the over 2,000 contributors are unaffiliated members of the community. https://archive.is/TwJkK ________________ If you want a different package manager may I recommend [GUIX](https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Guix) of [Pacman](https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacman_package_manager)?

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