✨ Feature Suggestion | Add information about Intel ME and AMD PSP #1507

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2019-11-21T18:19:30Z

coopbri commented

2019-11-21 18:19:30 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Description:

I think it would be beneficial to include information about the Intel Management Engine (ME) and the AMD Platform Security Processor (PSP), perhaps within the Operating Systems page.

Both the Intel ME and the AMD PSP are processors within modern processors that contain proprietary blobs. They have very low-level access, even below the typical operating system ("Ring -1" access; standard operating system kernels are considered to have Ring 0 access -- see Wikipedia article: Protection Ring). As such, the typical operating system (Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD, etc.) cannot "see" the activity of the ME/PSP; they are backdoors by design. Both coprocessors are closely integrated with the BIOS/UEFI boot process, and absolutely no ME/PSP code is public. Both employ a security through obscurity threat model.

Some more details on each are outlined below:

Intel ME

Based on Intel Active Management Technology
Runs a full TCP/IP network stack, allowing remote access
- Bypasses any standard operating system firewall (again due to Ring -1 access)
Has full access to computer memory
Encrypted with RSA-2048 key
Runs a modified, proprietary version of Andrew Tanenbaum's MINIX operating system
Can be partially removed ("deblobbed") on some architectures with ME Cleaner script: https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner
- Newer chipsets (Haswell and later) cannot use this method due to "Intel Boot Guard"
If disabled (by flashing or otherwise), PC will power off after ~30 minutes
More reading/reference material
- Wikipedia article
- Libreboot Intel ME FAQ
- Intel ME Critical Firmware Update SA-00086
- Andrew Tanenbaum's statement on Intel asking about MINIX (highly recommend checking this out)
- Article with Damien Zammit's (EFF) comments

AMD PSP

Based on AMD Secure Technology
Lies on ARM core processor inside of AMD processors
Cryptographically signed, similar to ME
Exists on 16h systems and later (circa 2013 - present)
More reading/reference material

Perhaps it would be useful to provide only known information (e.g. that they exist and not much is known about them in the public space), and mention that this is largely due to them being proprietary and tightly-guarded features.

## Description: I think it would be beneficial to include information about the Intel Management Engine (ME) and the AMD Platform Security Processor (PSP), perhaps within the Operating Systems page. Both the Intel ME and the AMD PSP are processors within modern processors that contain proprietary blobs. They have very low-level access, even below the typical operating system ("Ring -1" access; standard operating system kernels are considered to have Ring 0 access -- see [Wikipedia article: Protection Ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_ring)). As such, the typical operating system (Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD, etc.) cannot "see" the activity of the ME/PSP; they are backdoors by design. Both coprocessors are closely integrated with the BIOS/UEFI boot process, and absolutely no ME/PSP code is public. Both employ a _security through obscurity_ threat model. <br> Some more details on each are outlined below: ### Intel ME - Based on Intel Active Management Technology - Runs a full TCP/IP network stack, allowing remote access - Bypasses any standard operating system firewall (again due to Ring -1 access) - Has full access to computer memory - Encrypted with RSA-2048 key - Runs a modified, proprietary version of Andrew Tanenbaum's MINIX operating system - Can be partially removed ("deblobbed") on some architectures with ME Cleaner script: [https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner](https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner) - Newer chipsets (Haswell and later) cannot use this method due to "Intel Boot Guard" - If disabled (by flashing or otherwise), PC will power off after ~30 minutes - More reading/reference material - [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine) - [Libreboot Intel ME FAQ](https://libreboot.org/faq.html#intelme) - [Intel ME Critical Firmware Update SA-00086](https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000025619/software.html) - [Andrew Tanenbaum's statement on Intel asking about MINIX](https://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/intel/) __(highly recommend checking this out)__ - [Article with Damien Zammit's (EFF) comments](https://news.softpedia.com/news/intel-x86-cpus-come-with-a-secret-backdoor-that-nobody-can-touch-or-disable-505347.shtml) ### AMD PSP - Based on AMD Secure Technology - Lies on ARM core processor inside of AMD processors - Cryptographically signed, similar to ME - Exists on 16h systems and later (circa 2013 - present) - More reading/reference material - [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processor) - [Libreboot AMD PSP FAQ](https://libreboot.org/faq.html#amd-platform-security-processor-psp) - [Reddit thread about releasing the PSP source code](https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/5z4phx/petition_for_amd_to_opensource_the_psp_backdoor/) - [Reddit thread with AMD employee AMA, including CEO Dr. Lisa Su](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5x4hxu/we_are_amd_creators_of_athlon_radeon_and_other/defi2oq/) <br> Perhaps it would be useful to provide only known information (e.g. that they exist and not much is known about them in the public space), and mention that this is largely due to them being proprietary and tightly-guarded features.

👍 3

tjhietala commented

2020-03-20 16:11:05 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

The processor formerly known as PSP is these days called AMD Secure Processor (although the old name seems to still persist on the net). Some additional links:

Official site: https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/security

RE tool: https://github.com/PSPReverse/PSPTool

CCC presentations: https://media.ccc.de/v/thms-38-dissecting-the-amd-platform-security-processor
https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10942-uncover_understand_own_-_regaining_control_over_your_amd_cpu

The processor formerly known as PSP is these days called AMD Secure Processor (although the old name seems to still persist on the net). Some additional links: Official site: https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/security RE tool: https://github.com/PSPReverse/PSPTool CCC presentations: https://media.ccc.de/v/thms-38-dissecting-the-amd-platform-security-processor https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10942-uncover_understand_own_-_regaining_control_over_your_amd_cpu

freddy-m commented

2021-02-23 10:41:02 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@privacytools/editorial thoughts on this? I'm not against it...

tjhietala commented

2021-02-25 21:23:20 +00:00

(Migrated from github.com)

A couple of additional links:

In-depth dive into the security features of the Intel/Windows platform secure boot process

Intel® Converged Security and Management Engine (Intel® CSME) Security White Paper November 2020

A couple of additional links: [In-depth dive into the security features of the Intel/Windows platform secure boot process](https://igor-blue.github.io/2021/02/04/secure-boot.html) [Intel® Converged Security and Management Engine (Intel® CSME) Security White Paper November 2020](https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/security-advisory/documents/intel-csme-security-white-paper.pdf)

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Reference: privacyguides/privacytools.io#1507